#098 Even Today There is an Ancient Law for the River
A live conversation with Dr Anne Poelina
This is a very special episode, a live conversation event with Nyikina Warrwa elder, Dr Anne Poelina. We last spoke on the podcast for episode 84 back in May, on the launch of Regenerative Songlines Australia, and resolved to catch up on her country here in the Kimberley later in the year. We ended up doing that at this live event I was honoured to host the Q&A for - a screening of the film we also talked about in May, The Serpent’s Tale.
It’s the story of the Martuwarra Fitzroy River, its ancient Country, its First Peoples, its First Law, its need for recognition and protection, and its abundant opportunities for new economies, and as Anne puts it, the overarching need for sustainable lifeways on Country for Aboriginal people.
Dr Anne Poelina (R) with Anthony James (L) in conversation at the Sporties in Derby, West Kimberley (pic: Chris Lean).
“You got to walk the country, you got to feel the country, you got to sit with Aboriginal people, so that they feel relaxed and can tell you the science. Because a lot of the time, people come in, and even Western scientists and it’s quick. And so many Aboriginal people will tell you what they think you want to know, not what they know. ”
I wasn’t sure if this would turn into a podcast episode. But when the previous episode with Alessandro Pelizzon revealed such profound and significant global implications stemming from Anne’s work and what’s happening here, it had to be. All the more, given the quality and consequence of the dialogue that night. Given, then, that this is in addition to the usual weekly releases, I initially thought I’d produce a shorter summary version of the conversation. I did edit it down a little, partly due to sound issues, but the conversation gets more profound as it goes, and it’s so connected and applicable to dialogue happening right around this country and elsewhere. We’re so in this together.
This particular conversation starts with around 15 minutes of Anne and I, then the community joins the conversation, including nationally recognised local artist and teacher Mark Norval, the Shire CEO, former and current Shire Presidents, other locals both Indigenous and non-Indigenous, a prominent visitor to town in renowned Professor of Sustainability Peter Newman, and it culminates with an old schoolmate of Anne’s, a Bunuba man born in the River.
Here’s a time map of the conversation with a little more detail on the community voices you’ll hear:
4.10 - Anne and Anthony.
18.35 - Mark Norval, nationally recognised artist and teacher in the region for 40 years. Anne referred to Mark as having been here forever, perhaps the greatest respect an Indigenous elder could give! … On the need for this film to reach schools and the young everywhere.
19.55 - Amanda Dexter, Shire CEO, on the recent meeting she had with pastoralists.
24.40 - Peter McCumstie, former Shire President, on what other industries Anne thinks could come off the river.
26.50 - Me, on how not all pastoralists are holding onto old narratives of extraction that end up in disasters like the Murray-Darling river system; there are other narratives and practices emerging from pastoralists and farmers across the region and beyond.
32.40 - Professor of Sustainability Peter Newman, on opportunities to gain support for the approach Anne is advocating, including from the group he’s part of, Professors for Environmental Responsibility.
35.40 - Eleanor, local Derby woman with a significant family history in the region, and personal daily commitment to cleaning up the marsh and other living systems. … On fracking.
37.30 - Geoff Haerewa, Shire President, on how we join the two sciences together, including for government decision-makers.
44.10 - Mark Norval again, on why decisions about country need to be made on country, not in boardrooms.
47.10 – Unsure who this was (do let me know if you know), on how to get this film seen right around the country.
49.25 - Amanda Dexter again, on whether private online screenings/webinars could be organised, including with MPs.
51.30 - Peter McCumstie again, on what might become of King Sound if the Martuwarra isn’t protected.
55.30 - Victor, Anne’s old Bunuba school mate who was born in the river.
56.40 – Final words from Anne.
For those less familiar with Anne: Dr Anne Poelina is a Nyikina Warrwa Traditional Custodian who belongs to the Martuwarra Fitzroy River, in the West Kimberley region of Western Australia. She is Chair of the esteemed Martuwarra Fitzroy River Council. Anne is also an international award winner, Managing Director of Madjulla Incorporated, a qualified nurse, traditional midwife, has multiple postgraduate degrees, and over 30 years’ experience in Indigenous health, education, language and community development.
This conversation was recorded live at the Sporties in Derby, on Nyikina Country, 9 October 2021.
With thanks to the Red Shed Derby Women’s Collective for inviting me to host this conversation. And also to Harry Jakamarra and 6DBY Larrkardi Radio.
Please excuse the recording quality of the audience questions. I’ve done the best I could with it. The quality of what was said, however, was brilliant. And I wanted you to hear it from the people themselves, rather than me patching in what they’d said.
CORRECTION: Please note that where Anne talks about the extraordinary sacred site on her country as being 100 million years old, she later corrected this – it’s a ridge that is 20 million years old, on bedrock that is 200 million years old.
Click on the photos below for full view, and hover over the image for descriptions & credits where they’ve been added (all photos by Chris Lean unless noted).
Get more:
You’re invited to a special event on 26 October 2021, for Regenerative Songlines Australia, featuring Anne.
The Martuwarra Fitzroy River Council.
Trailer for the film, The Serpent’s Tale.
A new short film on elder and artist Mervyn Street, by Sarah Laborde (who also contributed to The Serpent’s Tale).
And for more on the potentially significant breakthrough with the legal concept of ancestral personhood that Anne talked about at the end of this episode, tune into the previous episode 97 with Dr Alessandro Pelizzon.
You can hear my previous conversations with Anne for this podcast in episodes 84 and 21.
Music:
River Feeling, at the start of the episode, and Liyan, at the end, both by Anne’s son Mark Coles-Smith, composing as Kalaji (joined in Liyan by Ursula Yovich).